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Fysikberegninger på grafikkortet?

Skrevet af Nicki T. Hansen (GWiZ), 20. marts 2006.

NVidia vil, i samarbejde med Havok, på GDC (Game Developer Conference) fremvise en demo af fysikberegninger foretaget udelukkende af GeForce kort.

Det er resultatet af længere tids samarbejde mellem nVidia og Havok, som resulterer i et software produkt kaldet Havok FX, som lader beregningerne blive foretaget i grafikkortet.

ATi har tidligere forsøgt med det samme, men har endnu ikke vist egentlige demoer frem. Er dette monstro døden for PhysX fysikprocessoren?

Kilde: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060320/sfm088.html


Kommentarer
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Nicki (GWiZ)
Skrevet 20-03-2006 Kl. 22:15
Jeg vil straks bemærke at navnet FX måske har en uheldig historie for nVidia, men nuvel. :-)

Nicki (GWiZ)
Skrevet 20-03-2006 Kl. 22:24
Jeg vil lige fremhæve lidt detaljer fra pressemeddelesen.

"Through Havok FX, GPUs can simulate the interactions of thousands of colliding rigid bodies, a fundamental technique of physics computation seen in today's latest games. It's now possible to compute the components of friction, collisions, gravity, mass, and velocity that form the basis of rigid body physics. Havok FX is designed for GPUs supporting Shader Model 3.0, including the NVIDIA GeForce 6 and 7 Series GPUs.

(...)

Tyler Thompson, Technical Director of video game developer Flagship Studios states, "With Havok FX, we can explore new types of visual effects that add realism into Hellgate: London. Given the widespread installed base of GPUs and the incredible performance of the new NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX and GT GPUs, Havok FX was a natural choice."

"We are very excited about the quality and speed we are seeing on the NVIDIA GPUs. We've believed for some time that GPU technology had the potential to simulate physical effects and our collaboration with NVIDIA has proven that," says Jeff Yates, VP of Product Management at Havok. "The large installed base of Shader Model 3 class GPUs and momentum by NVIDIA in the market make Havok FX an attractive solution for game developers looking for hardware-accelerated physics."

"Moving physics processing to the GPU is a natural progression enabled by the high programmability in today's GPUs," said David Kirk, chief scientist at NVIDIA. "By combining expertise with Havok, we have produced a fantastic solution for game developers that will lead to more compelling game-play and more realistic gaming experiences."

Kilde: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060320/sfm088.html

Det interessante er at Havok FX formentligt understøtter ALLE grafikkort, der understøtter Shader Model 3.0. Dette er fremragende, da også ATi grafikkort vil kunne bruge det. Huzzah.

Nicki (GWiZ)
Skrevet 21-03-2006 Kl. 01:53
Heh, hvis jeg ellers kiggede på min mail lidt oftere, ville jeg have set at jeg også selv har fået pressemeddelelsen, hvorfor linket til yahoo er lidt overflødigt.

Her er den fulde pressemeddelelse.

-----------
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

NVIDIA AND HAVOK DEMONSTRATE WORLD’S FIRST GPU-POWERED GAME PHYSICS SOLUTION AT GAME DEVELOPER’S CONFERENCE

NVIDIA® SLI™ Platform Supports Physics to Expand and Add Value to Developers and Gamers

SANTA CLARA, CA—MARCH 20, 2006—NVIDIA Corporation (Nasdaq: NVDA), the worldwide leader in programmable graphics processor technologies, and Havok, the game industry’s leading supplier of cross-platform middleware, will be demonstrating a physics effects solution that runs completely on a graphics processing unit (GPU) —an industry first—at this year’s Game Developer Conference (GDC) in San Jose, California (March 21st through 24th).

The result of an ongoing engineering collaboration between Havok and NVIDIA, this new software product from Havok—called Havok FX™—enables the simulation of dramatically-detailed physical phenomena in PC games, when powered by GPUs such as NVIDIA GeForce®7 or 6 Series GPUs and further amplified with NVIDIA SLI multi-GPU technology. The Havok FX product is currently in early release to select developers and is expected to be available this summer.

Through Havok FX, GPUs can simulate the interactions of thousands of colliding rigid bodies, a fundamental technique of physics computation seen in today’s latest games. It’s now possible to compute the components of friction, collisions, gravity, mass, and velocity that form the basis of rigid body physics. Havok FX is designed for GPUs supporting Shader Model 3.0, including the NVIDIA GeForce 6 and 7 Series GPUs.

Utilizing Havok FX and NVIDIA graphics technology, game developers can now implement sophisticated physical phenomenon such as debris, smoke, and fluids that add immense detail and believability to game environments. Game designers can include advanced physics effects without burdening the CPU and slowing game-play, since the effects are simulated and rendered on the GPU.

Tyler Thompson, Technical Director of video game developer Flagship Studios states: “With Havok FX, we can explore new types of visual effects that add realism into Hellgate: London. Given the widespread installed base of GPUs and the incredible performance of the new NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX and GT GPUs, Havok FX was a natural choice.”

“We are very excited about the quality and speed we are seeing on the NVIDIA GPUs. We’ve believed for some time that GPU technology had the potential to simulate physical effects and our collaboration with NVIDIA has proven that,” says Jeff Yates, VP of Product Management at Havok. “The large installed base of Shader Model 3 class GPUs and momentum by NVIDIA in the market make Havok FX an attractive solution for game developers looking for hardware-accelerated physics.”

“Moving physics processing to the GPU is a natural progression enabled by the high programmability in today’s GPUs,” said David Kirk, chief scientist at NVIDIA. “By combining expertise with Havok, we have produced a fantastic solution for game developers that will lead to more compelling game-play and more realistic gaming experiences.”

The award-winning NVIDIA GeForce 7 and GeForce 6 graphics architectures deliver advanced technologies including full support for Microsoft® DirectX® 9.0 Shader Model 3.0, enabling advanced shading programs for more realistic effects. By using the advanced programmable resources available in current GPUs, developers can harness the massive parallel computation capability of NVIDIA GPUs. The performance available to developers is further enhanced through NVIDIA SLI technology. This revolutionary platform innovation allows users to intelligently scale graphics performance by combining multiple NVIDIA graphics solutions in a single system with an NVIDIA nForce® SLI MCP.

About Havok
Havok is the gaming industry’s leading independent provider of physics and character animation middleware. Top game developers and publishers worldwide such as Sony, EA, Microsoft Game Studios, Ubisoft, and Activision have licensed Havok products for use on over 150 titles including Halo 2, Perfect Dark Zero, Age of Empires III, Marvel Nemesis, and Mercenaries. Havok enables game developers to create virtual worlds where players enter a dynamic, living and breathing universe with characters that interact in a completely natural and unscripted way. Havok’s game specific solutions help developers achieve creative goals while reducing overall cost, time and risk associated with building today’s leading games. Havok has offices in Dublin, Ireland and San Francisco.

About NVIDIA

NVIDIA Corporation is the worldwide leader in programmable graphics processor technologies. The Company creates innovative, industry-changing products for computing, consumer electronics, and mobile devices. NVIDIA is headquartered in Santa Clara, CA and has offices throughout Asia, Europe, and the Americas. For more information, visit www.nvidia.com.

Certain statements in this press release including, but not limited to, the benefits, performance, capabilities and features of NVIDIA GeForce 7 and GeForce 6 series GPUs and SLI technology, the collaboration between NVIDIA and Havok, availability of Havok FX, PC gamers’ continued demand for realism, game developer’s uses of the Havok FX and NVIDIA graphics technology, and the combination of NVIDIA and Havok technology , are forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause results to be materially different than expectations. Such risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, changes in PC gamers’ preferences for quality and speed, lack of new PC games to use the new technology, delays in ramping new products into production, prohibitive pricing of new products and games, loss of performance when products are used together, development of new technologies, manufacturing defects, software bugs, general industry trends including cyclical trends in the semiconductor industry, the impact of competitive products and pricing alternatives, and other risks detailed from time to time in the reports NVIDIA files with the Securities and Exchange Commission including its Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended January 29, 2006. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the date hereof. NVIDIA disclaims any obligation to update these forward-looking statements.

Y
Skrevet 21-03-2006 Kl. 13:12
Så vidt jeg har forstået det, så er fysikberegningerne på GPU´en begrænset til ting som partikeleffekter, bølger og hår der flagrer i vinden - kort sagt: "eyecandy". Egentlige fysikberegninger såsom deformation af en metalstruktur eller kollisionsdetektion er stadigvæk PPU´ens domæne. Det er disse sidstnævnte beregninger som tillader spilleren at interagere med de virtuelle omgivelser og derfor, IMO, de mest interessante.

PPU´ens succes afhænger i højere grad af om der kommer spil på markedet som udnytter de muligheder som "ægte" fysiske beregninger giver.


Nicki (GWiZ)
Skrevet 21-03-2006 Kl. 17:00
"Through Havok FX, GPUs can simulate the interactions of thousands of colliding rigid bodies, a fundamental technique of physics computation seen in today’s latest games.
(...)
Utilizing Havok FX and NVIDIA graphics technology, game developers can now implement sophisticated physical phenomenon such as debris, smoke, and fluids that add immense detail and believability to game environments. Game designers can include advanced physics effects without burdening the CPU and slowing game-play, since the effects are simulated and rendered on the GPU. "

Den første fremhævning er jo som sådan kollisionsdetektion, og de andre er mere "eye-candy". Husk på at "fluids" ikke nødvendigvis bare er "bølger", da disse kan opnås uden fysikberegninger vha. pixelshaderen, men derimod rigtige væskeberegninger, som jeg forklarer i PhysX artiklen her på sitet. Jeg vil tro at alle de beregniner Novodex/PhysX kan lave, kan laves på en GPU.

Nuvel, jeg glæder mig til at få nærmere detaljer om dette, så vi kan få tvivlen ud af verden.

Nicki (GWiZ)
Skrevet 21-03-2006 Kl. 21:41
Firingsquad har lavet et interview med Havok om dette.
Find det her: http://firingsquad.com/features/havok_fx_interview/

Nicki (GWiZ)
Skrevet 23-03-2006 Kl. 10:08
PC Perspective har lavet et interview med ATi om fysikberegninger på grafikkortet og Havok FX.
Find interviewet her:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=226

Y
Skrevet 23-03-2006 Kl. 14:28
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060322-6436.html:

"Update and Correction: Nvidia's SLI physics acceleration isn't quite the same thing as what PhysX offers. The original article implied that the two were direct competitors, but they actually perform different functions, and could in fact presumably work together. The Nvidia technology is aimed at graphics effects, like particles, cloth, water, and other second-order visual phenomena that don't affect gameplay. In other words, when something happens in the game that has an effect that the CPU doesn't really have to know about because it won't affect gameplay—like a rocket moving the fog out of the way as it travels, or a cloak crumpling a certain way because it was moved by a player, or water splashing in a certain pattern—then the GPU can accelerate that."


Som tidligere nævnt mener jeg stadigvæk ikke at GPU´en er i stand til at udføre de samme beregninger som PPU´en. Desuden mangler vi også at få klarhed over hvordan fysikberegninger, udført på grafikkortet, påvirker antallet af FPS. For mig lyder det lidt for godt til at være sandt, hvis GPU´en kan fortage disse ekstra beregninger uden at det medfører et fald i antallet af frames.
Hvis ens system i forvejen ikke har for mange FPS at give af vil et performancehit, p.g.a. ekstra arbejde til GPU´en, ikke ligefrem øge spilleglæden - tværtimod...




Nicki (GWiZ)
Skrevet 24-03-2006 Kl. 06:50
Guru3D har nu et par videoer klar til download, der viser Havok FX i aktion med et nVidia grafikkort.
Find videoerne her:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1357

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